"Joy and pleasure are as real as pain and sorrow and one must learn what they have to teach. . . ." -- Sean Russell, from Gatherer of Clouds

"If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right." -- Helyn D. Goldenberg

"I love you and I'm not afraid." -- Evanescence, "My Last Breath"

“If I hear ‘not allowed’ much oftener,” said Sam, “I’m going to get angry.” -- J.R.R. Tolkien, from Lord of the Rings

Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Faith, the Founders, and Modern "Conservatives"

Steven Waldman is beginning a discussion of his new book over at TPM Cafe. His first topic is "Liberal Fallacy #1: Most founding fathers were Deists or secular.."

OK. Right.

He begins by pointing out that you can find a quote from Jefferson, Monroe, Madison, Franklin, Washington, Adams, whoever, to support your argument, no matter what it is, and so dismisses argument by anecdote, which is perfectly justified.

He then proceeds to make an argument by anecdote, prefacing it with the assertion that

They rejected the idea that the Bible was inerrant but, to a person, believed in an omnipotent god who intervened in the lives of men and nations. Later in life, they also believed that their actions in life would be judged and determine their fate in the afterlife.

The problem with this whole thing is that it doesn't matter whether the Founders were Deists, Atheists, Baptists, or Witches. What matters is what they wrote into the Constitution, which is that "Congress shall make no law respecting establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof." (Paraphrased from the First Amendment). That's something you won't find in any argument from the right for the primacy of religious belief (their particular brand, of course) over secular law. Note that Waldman makes no reference to it.

Read the comments on the post, too -- Waldman gets raked over the coals for cherrypicking his facts, among other things.

This is the sort of argument that gets advanced time and again when debating the role of religion in politics, and all the variations are pretty much irrelevant. It doesn't matter what the Founders' personal beliefs were. What matters is what they included in the framework they built for the governance of this country.

Duh.

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